+
|
+
+ Nick Cammarata On Jhana +
++ ... +
+| + + | +
| + + | +|||||||||||||||
+
|
+ |||||||||||||||
| + + | +
+ Buddhists say that if you meditate enough, you can learn to + enter a state of extreme bliss called jhana. +
++ (there are many different jhana states - there’s a discussion of the distinctions here + - but I’m lumping them together for simplicity. For + attempted explanations of why jhana should exist, see here and here.) +
++ Jhana is different from enlightenment. Enlightenment changes + you forever. Jhana is just a state you can enter during + meditation sessions, then leave when the session is over. + Enlightenment takes years or decades of work, but some people + describe reaching jhana after a few months of practice. + Hardcore Buddhists insist that jhana is good only insofar as + it serves as a stepping stone to enlightenment; others may + find extreme bliss desirable in its own right. +
++ Nick Cammarata + of OpenAI sometimes meditates and reaches jhana. I’ve + found his descriptions unusually, well, descriptive: +
+
+
+
+
+
+ + And he links to others with similar perspectives: +
+ +
+ 
+ + In other words: jhana is incredibly blissful, orders of + magnitude better than even amazing sex. With enough meditation + ability, you can access it on demand, with no side effects. + But it isn’t addictive; Nick maintains a normal job and + social life. As far as I know, he doesn’t steal from his + friends to buy more incense and meditation cushions. In fact, + jhana is so non-reinforcing that Nick often + “forgets” it’s even an option. +
++ We’ve been talking recently about the difference + between happiness and reinforcement (cf wanting vs. liking). If jhana works the way that Nick and others describe it, + then it’s an extreme example of this distinction - + almost maximally pleasurable, but with disproportionately + little (zero?) reinforcement value. I don’t think + normal models of reward have a good explanation here. +
++ This is one reason I’m still interested in Qualia + Research Institute ideas like the Symmetry Theory of Valence, even though there are some strong objections to them. I interpret QRI as coming at the problem from the + opposite direction as everyone else: normal neuroscience + starts with normal brain behavior and tries to build on it + until they can one day explain crazy things like jhana; QRI + starts with crazy things like jhana and tries to build down + until they can explain ordinary behavior. This is naturally + going to be shakier and harder to research - but somebody + should be trying it. +
++ Discussion questions: +
+-
+
-
+
+ Suppose there were a town where you could eat infinite + amazing food without any weight gain, have amazing sex + with as many attractive people as you wanted, and watch + the greatest shows and symphonies in the world, all for + free. Also you have lots of great friends there who are + always willing to hang out and have fun with you. How far + away (in minutes) would that town need to be from your + house before you went there less than once a week? Once a + month? +
+
+ -
+
+ Suppose that you read this post and decide to study + meditation to reach jhana. You study hard for six months, + succeed, and it’s even better than you imagined - + but it isn’t reinforcing on a neurological level. + Does this register as negative prediction error in the + reward center? Would it make you less likely to try plans + like “study meditation” in the future, because + they “don’t pay off”? +
+
+ -
+
+ When Nick says that he’s less interested in casual + sex now, because jhana is an easier way to get pleasure, + what is going on at a neurological level? Is this + nonsense? If some sex addict who says “it’s + not even pleasurable anymore, I just feel like it’s + a compulsion” learned to access jhana, would this + cure his sex addiction? +
+
+
+ Thanks for subscribing to + Astral Codex Ten. This post is public, so feel free to share it. +
++ Share +
+| + + | +||||||||||
+
|
+ ||||||||||
| + + | +
+ © 2022 Scott Alexander
548 Market Street
+ PMB 72296, San Francisco, CA 94104
Unsubscribe
+
+ 
+